ded_maxim: (Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibnitz)
ded_maxim ([personal profile] ded_maxim) wrote2010-04-11 03:13 pm

наука и "истина"

К бурным дискуссиям о социальной природе научного знания: рецензия Саймона Блэкберна на книгу Алана Сокаля Beyond the Hoax: Science, Philosophy and Culture. Важный оттуда отрывок:
What explains the instrument's accuracy? Science says that the speed of light is so many meters per second, and that is true, or science says that the speed of light is so many meters per second and the speed of light is so many meters per second. The second makes no mention of truth, but it works just as well to explain our success. Indeed, it has some title to being science's own explanation of it, and that it is the best that there is. Science does not typically mention the concept of truth in describing how GPS devices work.

It is a queer thing about truth that it has this self-effacing quality. And it is not as if we have to choose which of the explanations should be preferred, the one with truth in the shop window or the one without it. They come to exactly the same thing. Many philosophers, myself included, think that this implies that the notion has a logical, rather than a metaphysical, function. A large claim such as "science gives us the truth" would be a summary way of collecting together a lot of examples such as "science says that cholera is due to a virus, and it is" and "science says that the earth circles the sun, and it does." Since we all assent to many such examples, we can summarize our confidence by assenting to the generalization as well.
Вот как-то так примерно (update: за вычетом того, что холера это не вирусное заболевание).

[identity profile] kutya.livejournal.com 2010-04-11 07:30 pm (UTC)(link)
cholera is not caused by a fucking virus.
pretty bad example for "science gives us the truth", eh? :)

[identity profile] ded-maxim.livejournal.com 2010-04-11 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Bacterium, virus -- whatever, right?

[identity profile] occuserpens.livejournal.com 2010-04-11 07:58 pm (UTC)(link)
For a philosopher it does not matter, hehe

[identity profile] kutya.livejournal.com 2010-04-11 08:02 pm (UTC)(link)
гы.
тут же вспоминается старое:
"от чего лучше умереть: от сифилиса или от холеры?"
"лучше умереть мужчиной, чем засранцем!"

[identity profile] ded-maxim.livejournal.com 2010-04-11 08:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Wait -- I think I know what's going on ... No, it can't be that simple, can it? Blackburn is doing a Sokal on the hapless TNR editors!

[identity profile] ded-maxim.livejournal.com 2010-04-11 08:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Не слышал раньше. Записываю.

[identity profile] occuserpens.livejournal.com 2010-04-11 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Looks like he got carried away by Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity...

[identity profile] ygam.livejournal.com 2010-04-11 09:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Или от дизентерии

[identity profile] aite.livejournal.com 2010-04-12 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
Между тем, любой алгоритм, по которому производится tracking, вовсю использует понятие "truth". Скажем, если объект на поверхности земли, его настоящие координаты (положим, точно неизвестные) буквально называются "ground truth".

Эти философы вообще в чем-нибудь разбираются?

[identity profile] ded-maxim.livejournal.com 2010-04-12 02:06 am (UTC)(link)
Это не совсем та "truth", которая имеется в виду, когда говорят о том, что "наука познает истину".

[identity profile] ded-maxim.livejournal.com 2010-04-12 02:08 am (UTC)(link)
P.S. Поскольку я занимаюсь обучающимися алгоритмами, фильтрацией и теорией процессов управления, я какбе в курсе того, что такое "ground truth" :) Это даже не муж и жена, а четыре совершенно разных человека.

[identity profile] aite.livejournal.com 2010-04-12 02:38 am (UTC)(link)
Ну да, это я тоже понимаю. Это все очень напоминает про лошадь-зебру.

re:

(Anonymous) 2011-07-05 01:52 pm (UTC)(link)
All can be