2008: личные открытия

[ded_maxim]

Музыка: Detektivbyrån, Bon Iver, Eleanoora Rosenholm, Valet
Книги: Jeff VanderMeer, City of Saints and Madmen; Neal Stephenson, Anathem; Clifford A. Wright, A Mediterranean Feast
Кино: Get Carter (1971)
Политические блоги: Balloon Juice, Eunomia
Эпикурейские наслаждения: tarte tatin with crème fraîche and armagnac; she-crab soup and hush puppies
Гаджеты: iPhone

Comments

[ded-maxim.livejournal.com]

Yes -- but it also arises as a means of describing them, just as the bat, the wish, and the worm use symbolic means to communicate about the traps that surround them.

[wsobchak.livejournal.com]

they don't use symbolic means-how could they establish those symbols and their representative meanings in the first place, lacking a common language?

[ded-maxim.livejournal.com]

So that's the whole point -- the symbolic means eventually emerge (like when the worm curls up into certain shapes, etc.) and are associated with various events in the environment. IIRC, the fish-bat-worm example was brought up first in the discussion about whether we may have means of communicating with extraterrestrials (which reminded me of Freudenthal's Lincos idea), and then led to the analogy of the fish, the bat, and the worm to parts of the brain, which eventually co-evolved to use common symbolic means to accomplish certain tasks. The symbols are established through the input/output behavior of each parts, and their representative meanings are learned (using reinforcement or whatever). Once a stable pattern is established, it essentially becomes a symbol.

tell me where I'm wrong below

[wsobchak.livejournal.com]

>The symbols are established through the input/output behavior of each parts, and their representative meanings are learned (using reinforcement or whatever). Once a stable pattern is established, it essentially becomes a symbol.

This is circular reasoning-until it understood to be a symbol by both sender and receiver,a pattern like this is useless. How does it become recognized as a symbol-well, the sender and the receiver have to have the same thing in mind, i.e., the geometric characteristics of whatever object is being symbolized. How is it that all objects follow the same geometric rules? The rules have an existence of their own which is more enduring than the objects, and this existence is in the HTW.

Which is all cool, but then the idea of having triangles come flying out of nowhere and open up a can of whupass is kind of silly.

Re: tell me where I'm wrong below

[ded-maxim.livejournal.com]

Would you mind if we resumed this discussion in 2009? I must get into the holiday mood (visit the parents and all).